Posts by zen nudist

146

The Trinity... is it a false teaching as the WTBTS claims?

by Honesty in

in the old testament god revealed himself to his chosen people, the israelites as i am:.

ex 3:14-15 - god replied to moses, i am who i am.

this is what you are to say to the israelites: i am .

zen nudist

The thing is that this topic was started as a question about a biblical doctrine. Was it true or not. I am offering no opinions but only Scriptures concerning the topic of this thread. I told you I am not convinved by any man or religion, nor do I care to convince someone else anything. I have quoted Scriptures concerning the nature of God.
If you believe the Bible clearly states that Jesus was an angel, then a mere man, then a vaporous spirit being, show me where the Bible states that. Not some man, religion, group of men, a book written by a man...
The Trinity... is it a false teaching as the WTBTS claims? According to the bible in it's entirety, no it is not a false teaching. Does it try to simplify the mystery of God? Possibly. Does the bible clearly teach Jesus was a created angel, then a man, then a spirit creature? NO

looking at the bible like I would any other book... remember school book reports?

I find, assuming the new testament is really a continuation of the OT [I no longer believe that], I find two basic characters running from right near the beginning to the very end. [not three btw, just two.]

the first character we meet in line one as Elohim and his attributes are given as maker of heaven and earth. [and while plural, this need mean nothing special as Dagon is Elohim as is Asheroth] this one is revealed to us as El Shaddai, Jehovah [YHWH]

the second character is first introduced to us after the fall as SEED of the WOMAN... gradually this other is revealed as the SHILOH, the ONE whose RIGHT it is... the ONE who come after me [Moses] -- the seed of David, the Branch of Jesse, the one like the son of man,

no one in the old testament is given cause to think this coming one is God himself or even a part of God, but certainly working for God...

146

The Trinity... is it a false teaching as the WTBTS claims?

by Honesty in

in the old testament god revealed himself to his chosen people, the israelites as i am:.

ex 3:14-15 - god replied to moses, i am who i am.

this is what you are to say to the israelites: i am .

zen nudist

hey if you need false assumptions and false beliefs about my views to maintain your own delusions, be my guest as I am not a christian and really dont care what you believe as I said it is all mythology to me and I dont even believe Jesus really existed any longer
If it is all mythology to you then you should not care that myself and mainstream Christians believe that Jesus is the Holy Divine Son, fully God and fully human and that we dedicate out lives to Bible Theology.

I have this odd belief that accuracy and honesty matter, I could be completely mistaken about this...but I feel the reason you and so many like you are still imprisoned by the infection known as christianity is because you have a distorted view that is based on being CONviNcED by CONfident MEN

146

The Trinity... is it a false teaching as the WTBTS claims?

by Honesty in

in the old testament god revealed himself to his chosen people, the israelites as i am:.

ex 3:14-15 - god replied to moses, i am who i am.

this is what you are to say to the israelites: i am .

zen nudist

once again they wanted you to see the Trinity in modalistic terms. That trinitarians believe they are one in the same. That is not so. True Trinitarians believe that God Yahweh is God the Father, He had a Son who then was God the Son, and by Spirit is God the Holy Spirit. They are equel in NATURE, separate in FUNCTION.
My children are sons and a daughter of two humans. They are fully human.
God placed His Holy Spirit, part of who He is, into the womb of Mary. The Son born was Son of man, and Son of God. Fully man, and fully God. That is who non cult Christians believe Jesus is. Not a recycled angel/man/spirit. They have believed this since day 1. They wrote about it and explained it. The Word was God. The Word became flesh and dwelt among us.

hey if you need false assumptions and false beliefs about my views to maintain your own delusions, be my guest as I am not a christian and really dont care what you believe as I said it is all mythology to me and I dont even believe Jesus really existed any longer

www.jesusneverexisted.com

what I see is a story book with characters and I find that trinitarians are taught this doctrine apart from the bible as they readily admit no one in the bible ever taught it to anyone.

then they are taught how to mine the verses for anything that even remotely sounds like it could refer to the trinity and they amass a bunch of out of context verses to show how stringing them together can give the impression that the bible god is a trinity, though no where in the bible is this taught nor explicitily stated.... and like the emperors new clothes the trinitarians pretend that only those with God on their side can get it....

what a bunch of self serving crap!

146

The Trinity... is it a false teaching as the WTBTS claims?

by Honesty in

in the old testament god revealed himself to his chosen people, the israelites as i am:.

ex 3:14-15 - god replied to moses, i am who i am.

this is what you are to say to the israelites: i am .

zen nudist

some make false assumptions about JW influences.

while a JW, I lost some blind trust due to debates with trinitarians and did my own personal research on the trinity issue, independantly of

JW teachings.... I found 125 or so verses which mention the father and son together, mostly as GOD and Jesus, and could not help but conclude that JWs were correct in seeing the trinity as false.

after leaving JWs my brother, who has never been a JW nor in any way influenced by them, started

his own independant research about the trinity question and came to the conclusion that the trinity was

a complete fabrication and could not possibily found by anyone who read the bible honestly without being

first influenced by trinitarians.

he has called me to discuss this and we have thrashed this out for several years now and he knows I really dont care which way it

is any more as I have moved beyond christianity and its just myths to me now.

146

The Trinity... is it a false teaching as the WTBTS claims?

by Honesty in

in the old testament god revealed himself to his chosen people, the israelites as i am:.

ex 3:14-15 - god replied to moses, i am who i am.

this is what you are to say to the israelites: i am .

zen nudist

this trinitarian B elief S ystem about pre-eminance is really rather silly

Look, no offence but the Bible is CLEAR about who Jesus is.
It is every individuals CHOICE to believe it or not.
Just don't try to rewrite the Bible. The Watchtower did that for us and look where it got us.

yes I find the bible exceedingly clear that character called Jesus is NOT the god of the bible, but a creature. who was GRANTED special status, GIVEN special powers, AUTHORIZED to do special works.... MADE both LORD and CHRIST by GOD [acts]

146

The Trinity... is it a false teaching as the WTBTS claims?

by Honesty in

in the old testament god revealed himself to his chosen people, the israelites as i am:.

ex 3:14-15 - god replied to moses, i am who i am.

this is what you are to say to the israelites: i am .

zen nudist

col 1:15

first born of all creatures/creation

parallel to first born of the dead, same words...

seems fairly plain that he was claimed to be the first one or proto-type of all those who would come after him

in two different ways... first as a creature and then as a new creation one born from the dead immortal

this trinitarian B elief S ystem about pre-eminance is really rather silly

58

Did Satan lie?

by moomanchu in

god said ,.

you shall not eat from it or touch it,.

the serpent said to the woman,.

zen nudist

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/101599/1.ashx

some have mentioned that it seems that God lied about the cause
of Adams death as Adam really died of old age
but an author of a book called the secret origins of the bible pointed out
something even more astonishing....
the bible plainly tells us why Adam was forbidden from living forever....
it does NOT say he was punished for SIN [something he did], but instead it specifies
that he was prevented for what he
MIGHT DO WITH THE KNOWLEDGE he obtained....
Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad, and now in order
that he not put his hand out and actually take also the fruit from the
likewise the people of Babel are punished for what they WILL possibly do...
very different from the long standing notion that SIN causes DEATH.... seems
more that God feared mankind's use of knowledge and cooperation more
than he hated the sins already committed.

146

The Trinity... is it a false teaching as the WTBTS claims?

by Honesty in

in the old testament god revealed himself to his chosen people, the israelites as i am:.

ex 3:14-15 - god replied to moses, i am who i am.

this is what you are to say to the israelites: i am .

zen nudist

1 cor 8:5-6 is the ONLY in context new testament verse which is comparing and contrasting God and Jesus with other God's and lords....

note it says to US [christians?] there is but ONE GOD, THE FATHER and ONE lord JESUS.....

note:

God has made Him both Lord and Christ-- this Jesus whom you crucified." (Acts 2:36)

NOT a contradiction, but a clarification that LORD in this case is NOT the same as GOD.....

so while JWs may be wrong about a great many things, the TRINITY is not one of them.... it is CLEARLY a human delusion read backwards into many OUT OF CONTEXT verse and never found in the bible taught by anyone.... and obviously something Jesus never gave two $#!+$ about as he commended peter and his other followers for simply acknowledging that Jesus was the promised messiah the SON of GOD, not GOD THE SON.

21

So What Exactly is an Unbaptized Publisher

by MrsBee in

.

a lady i know was telling me that she studied for 10 years and was considered an upbaptized publisher before being baptized.. is that possible, i didnt think and organization such as the jw's would let you just soak up all their "knowledge" without becoming one of the crew... :)

although havent been on here in a while since i had my son, i came on here asking for advice because i was having trouble dealing with the fact my husband was thinking about going back to the dubs, and he still hasnt gone back..yayayayayay... and im soooo happy, he still has most of their beliefs , but thats okay, they arent 100% bad, they helped him change his life..but i dont bother him cuz i dont want him runnin back!!!

zen nudist

I have mentioned this before, but I was a bit supprized to learn that in many congregations the number of unbaptized publishers were about half the full attendance for most meetings.... and the ONE thing thet kept them from being dunked was the door to door in every case I had opportunity to learn about first hand.

30

The leaking organization, seems like the young are exiting fast.

by free2beme in

jw
friends

i ran across a witness i knew the other day at the gym and we had an open and honest discussion on exiting the organization.

he still goes and used to be an elder, but stepped down when his children were disfellowshipped.

he was actually very honest with me on some subjects, which tells me that he is probably putting together an exit foundation and looking for some bricks of information to make it solid.

zen nudist

the attendance of several halls I was part of in the 80s was nearly half un-baptized, what do you figure the ratio is now?